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Spittal Belle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#1
Are other units having problems with parents putting their daughter's name down separately for several units, i.e not just selecting choices 1, 2 or 3 but physically putting their details in separately. One parent who came through to us was accepted and parent said her daughter was joining only to change her mind when pack 1 leader contacted her afterward saying she had a space. he child was on 2 waiting lists already, I find this very frustrating, I also had a parent who said she had "selected the wrong unit".
 

Kochanski

Veteran (100+ posts)
#2
Yes, I had 8 new starters in September (according to my list) but only 4 of those came to our pack in the end. I did wonder how new enquiries could have their name down in 3 places. Am I right in thinking that existing Brownies can express an interest in any number of Guide companies, though?
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#3
Yes - have had parents utilising initials and middle names to try and get their girl on as many lists as possible, fondly imagining it'll improve their chances of getting a place. Doesn't work, as local Leaders communicate, and often spot the ruse.
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#4
As a district, we try to ensure that girls are only on one list, as it's very hard to plan otherwise. Sometimes Rainbows ask to be on both Brownies lists, but we decide who is best placed to offer a place sooner. But every now and then we realise we've got the same girl on our list. I've not seen new joiners put in multiple applications though.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#6
GG only have so much resource for these sorts of issues. It has always happened and in our area someone at region office would go through and manually delete the obvious duplicates but there are always the less obvious ones Betty Smith, Elizabeth Smith, Beth Smith may all be the same..

Communication is the key and contact with the parent to reassure that a place will be available otherwise we can transfer..
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#7
I hope GG can get this sorted out sooner rather than later, sounds as if we are all being messed about.
It can be hard to differentiate automatically between Flossie Jones, Flossie J Jones and Flossie Josephine Jones, especially when there can be genuine twin names (for a couple of years, one of our local Guide units had two girls called Hannah Falconer, neither with a middle name - so far as we and they could tell they were unrelated, just coincidence). And we've had a few instances where Granny's address was quoted because Granny lives in our town but the family doesn't, and they thought we might prioritise 'locals' over girls from outwith the town.

If it means parents can nominate two or more units as 'first choice' in hopes of getting in one or the other sooner, then the temptation will exist to try. Unless units discuss names on waiting lists regularly at District meetings, such tactics would not necessarily be spotted by anyone.
 

ker-stee

SGP Enthusiast
GuiderPlus
#8
I hope GG can get this sorted out sooner rather than later, sounds as if we are all being messed about.
What would you say the answer would be? I have 2 sets of twins on my waiting list, both (I mean both sets) have the same dates of birth and both surnames start with the same letter, meaning I have: EH, LH and 2 x BH's on my waiting list with 2 having the same addresses (Obviously, as they're twins and live together)

I know all of these girls outside of Brownies, but it shows that this is just within one unit - it's so easy that similar names/addresses/DoBs could appear on waiting lists in the same district or division and could easily cause confusion - and who would be the person to make the decision on which list to leave a girl on?

Also, should we be discussing girls by name at district meetings, are we given their data so we can discuss it with others? I talk in numbers if i'm asked about my waiting list (But very rarely asked)
 

Trinny

Veteran (100+ posts)
#9
Possibly controversial, but does it really matter? I had one family who put in 3 records - Mary Jones, Mary P Jones and Sue Jones (mother's name). I emailed each 'person' with the email provided, and then the rather embarrassed parent admitted that she didn't in fact have triplets and only needed one space. And if they join another unit, so what? It's no more hassle than them deciding to join gymnastics.
Apart from the minor annoyance, the only time I can see it being a problem is if a unit was opened specifically to deal with large District waiting lists, only to find there are only a third of the girls waiting that you thought.

To be honest, in my opinion, Go has much bigger issues I'd like sorting!
 

Spittal Belle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#10
Possibly controversial, but does it really matter? I had one family who put in 3 records - Mary Jones, Mary P Jones and Sue Jones (mother's name). I emailed each 'person' with the email provided, and then the rather embarrassed parent admitted that she didn't in fact have triplets and only needed one space. And if they join another unit, so what? It's no more hassle than them deciding to join gymnastics.
Apart from the minor annoyance, the only time I can see it being a problem is if a unit was opened specifically to deal with large District waiting lists, only to find there are only a third of the girls waiting that you thought.

To be honest, in my opinion, Go has much bigger issues I'd like sorting!
The parent in question in my case had her daughter on at least 2-3 lists, guider 1 had no spaces and place enquiry on her waiting list, guider 2 got another request for the same girl, offered the girl a place and the co-ordinator spotted the duplicate, parent was contacted and confirmed daughter would join unit 2 the night before she was due to arrive, the parent, cancelled the place in unit 2 as unit 1 had now offered daughter a place. Whilst this situation may be okay for some as a one off, when this happens continuously it becomes wearing on the patience.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#11
Maybe this is a good situation for a District co-ordinator to keep an eye on it. If one parent has done it to her (her daughters) advantage, she has maybe inadvertently told others who now believe it is the accepted way.
Or maybe a standard email response from all units in the area saying that a child may only be on one waiting list and duplicate entries will be deleted. ( this may or may not happen in reality but the threat may be enough to prevent some)
 

Hilary

Guide Guider and District Commissioner
GuiderPlus
#12
Thing is, if you are a parent who wants to get your daughter into Brownies and you don't really mind which unit she goes to, you are prepared to drive her a short distance if it means she will get a place earlier, then that is what you would do. How many areas keep girls sitting on waiting lists rather than passing them on to another unit who could take them earlier? This is where district waiting lists used to work - through it doesn't help if the space is in a unit just over the district boundary.
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#13
Thing is, if you are a parent who wants to get your daughter into Brownies and you don't really mind which unit she goes to, you are prepared to drive her a short distance if it means she will get a place earlier, then that is what you would do. How many areas keep girls sitting on waiting lists rather than passing them on to another unit who could take them earlier? This is where district waiting lists used to work - through it doesn't help if the space is in a unit just over the district boundary.
I'm a DC, and I'm pushing to get all my leaders to stop putting girls on their lists - or worse, passing a girl who won't get into Rainbows directly to a Brownies waiting list, without trying to find a unit that could take the girl. It's not good for us, or the girls who don't get in for a long time.

I've spend a lot of time recently deflecting girls from my waiting list, as they would have sat there for a year because my list was so large. I've managed to convince half of them to go on waiting lists for closer units, as they will get places sooner, but one new joiner, who was the last on my list, and just turned 7 - started at a unit who had plenty of spaces, and has now come back to me asking if I can find her a place closer. Nowhere closer has a space for her - and my unit is not her closest unit by a long shot!
 

Kochanski

Veteran (100+ posts)
#14
It's maybe not exactly a problem, but it sure is annoying, when I think I will have to find spaces for 8, along with organising extra adults, ensuring sides will be balanced and all the other implications, then only 4 join our pack as 4 go elsewhere.
 

Trinny

Veteran (100+ posts)
#15
I'm a DC, and I'm pushing to get all my leaders to stop putting girls on their lists - or worse, passing a girl who won't get into Rainbows directly to a Brownies waiting list, without trying to find a unit that could take the girl. It's not good for us, or the girls who don't get in for a long time.

I've spend a lot of time recently deflecting girls from my waiting list...
Well this is the issue! You've just spent a lot of time doing it - others leaders may not have that time. Or maybe they do, but they'd rather prioritise organising a sleepover or attending a training. Because who really loses out with this? Maybe we take a small reputational hit that we are so popular there aren't enough spaces, but mainly it's the girl and her family. So if it has been explained that yes you can wait but alternatively Sue has a space immediately, and they still want to wait, then I say let them.
 

ker-stee

SGP Enthusiast
GuiderPlus
#16
So if it has been explained that yes you can wait but alternatively Sue has a space immediately, and they still want to wait, then I say let them.
This is my problem. I have girls who's parents will prefer they sit on my waiting list for potentially 12 months rather than taking them to one of the two next closest units (Which are both under a mile as the crow flies). I can't force them to go to another unit, but as long as i've managed their expectations from the beginning, then what can I do?

The Rainbow leader explains to girls going on waiting lists that they may not get a space when they're 7 in my unit, but still, they choose to sit there (Which is why I have a waiting list of over 20, when the 2 other closest groups have spaces)
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#17
This is my problem. I have girls who's parents will prefer they sit on my waiting list for potentially 12 months rather than taking them to one of the two next closest units (Which are both under a mile as the crow flies). I can't force them to go to another unit, but as long as i've managed their expectations from the beginning, then what can I do?
This is my problem also - and is the reason I ended up with a waiting list that meant some girls would never actually get in.

The girls that do get to Rainbows don't end up on my waiting list until they are closer to Brownies age. The girls who were late to Rainbows get put straight on my waiting list. So I have a large group of girls who are all new joiners, then suddenly I got an equally large number of Rainbows for the same age group.

They can't all get in on time - and existing members should have priority. So do I go with those guidelines and bump the girls who have now been on the waiting list for over two years for another 6 months to a year? Or do I tell the Rainbows they'll have to wait 6 months to a year before they get in? New joiners who are added to my list now and are old enough to join still have to wait 12 to 18 months if they stay on my list.

That ends up being a lot of emailing and juggling, so there isn't any less work, it's just in a different place and time.

So I have drastically reduced my waiting list recently by finding places for girls in nearer units.

Now, when a girl is added to my list, I immediately look at her 2nd/3rd choices, and I look at where she lives. And I ask the 2nd choice unit if they have room (via Go!). If they have no 2nd choice, but are not near my unit, I look at the units they are near, and message one of them. All of this isn't a lot more time added on to the time I have to spend anyway, going in to Go, getting the girl's details and contacting her parent.
 

Ech18

Veteran (100+ posts)
#18
I’ve just spent all day chasing a parent around waiting lists (or so it feels), really wish they would reply to my email!

Also parents can now message you through GO (or I have just realised this) this is going to be fun!
 

ker-stee

SGP Enthusiast
GuiderPlus
#19
I’ve just spent all day chasing a parent around waiting lists (or so it feels), really wish they would reply to my email!

Also parents can now message you through GO (or I have just realised this) this is going to be fun!
Don't spend time chasing. Set a deadline and stick to it ('If I haven't heard from you by XXXXX date, I will have to remove your daughter from our waiting list')

No point in spending your time doing it